Originally posted by:paradelights
Originally posted by:jdubit
Originally posted by:paradelights
hey sharps, I just want you to know that JW's are actually notorious for twisting the bible to mean what they want. That's why you never seen JW scholars in the secular world....ever. it's because anyone who actually reads greek knows these guys are out of their minds. they will literally eat up anything the "watchtower" feeds them because the "watchtower" is their idea of god's voice on earth.
He is not a Christian and what he says, is not what the bible teaches.
yea sharplimb, jdubs are notorious for twisting the Bible to mean what we want, but matt won't give you any examples.
and yea sharplimb, why would any true christian not want to be part of the secular world and be an all important "scholar".
believe matt i don't care.
matt has trouble acknowledging one of the basics of the Bible and that is the use of God's name Jehovah. hopefully he's not representative of the other christian "scholars".
Ok so it's jehovah....who cares. even if it is, stop saying his name. The ancient jewish people refrained from the use of his name because it was to holy. If you respect God at all, stop using his name out of respect for his greatness.
Let me ask you, do you have a close relationship with anyone whose personal name you do not know? For people to whom God is nameless he is often merely an impersonal force, not a real person, not someone that they know and love and to whom they can speak from the heart in prayer.
If they do pray, their prayers are merely a ritual, a formalistic repetition of memorized expressions.
True Christians have a commission from Jesus Christ to make disciples of people of all nations. When teaching these people, how would it be possible to identify the true God as different from the false gods of the nations? Only by using His personal name, as the Bible itself does.
Exodus 3:15 "God said... to Moses: 'This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, "Jehovah the God of your forefathers... has sent me to you." This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation."
Isaiah 12:4 "Give thanks to Jehovah, you people! Call upon his name. Make known among the peoples his dealings. Make mention that his name is put on high."
Ezekiel 38:17, 23: "This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, '... And I shall certainly magnify myself and snctify myself and make myself known before the yes of many nations; and they will have to konw that I am Jehovah."
Malachi 3:16 "Those in fear of Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept pay attention and listening. And a book of remembrance began to be written up before him for those in fear of Jehovah and for those thinking upon his name."
John 17:26 "[Jesus prayed to his Father:] I made your name known to them [his followers] and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them."
Acts 15:14 "Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name."
So, sure matt, sounds like we aren't suppose to use it
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
sorry it does not say "a" God.
i explained this to you before, but i'll walk you through it again...
If a passage can grammatically be translated in more than one way, what is the correct rendering? One that is in agreement with the rest of the Bible. If a person ignores other portions of the Bible and builds his belief around a favorite rendering of a particular verse, then what he believes really reflects, not the Word of God, but his own ideas and perhaps those of another imperfect human.
John 1:1, 2:
RS reads: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God." (KJ, Dy, JB, NAB use similar wording.) However, NW reads : In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God."
Is the rendering "a god" consistent with the rules of Greek grammar? Some reference books argue strongly that the Greek text must be translated, "The Word was God." But not all agree. In his article "Qualitative Anarthrous Predicate Nouns: Mark 15:39 and John 1:1, "with an anarthrous predicate preceding the verb, are primarily qualitative in meaning.
They indicate that the logos has the nature of theos." He suggests: "Perhaps the clause could be translated, 'the Word had the same nature as God.'" (Journal of Biblical LIterature, 1973, pp. 85, 87) Thus, in this text, the fact that the word the-os' in its second occurrence is without the definite article(ho) and is placed before the verb in the sentence in Greek is significant. Interestingly, translators that insist on rendering John 1:1, "The Word was God," do not hesitate to use the indefinite article (a, an) in their rendering of other passages where a singular anarthrous predicate noun occurs before the verb. Thus at John 6:70, JB and KJ both refer to Judas Iscariot as "a devil," and at John 9:17 they describe Jesus as "a prophet."
John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated 'the word was with the god [= the Father], and the word was a divine being.'" - (Brackets are his. Published with nihil obstat and imprimatur.)
In harmony with the above, AT reads: "the Word was divine"; Mo, "the Logos was divine"; NTIV, "the word was a god." In his German translation Ludwig Thimme expresses it in this way: "God of a sort the Word was." Referring to the Word (who became Jesus Christ) as "a god" is consistent with the use of that term in the rest of the Scriptures. For example, at Psalm 82:1-6 human judges in Israel were referred to as "gods" because they were representatives of Jehovah and were to speak his law.
Now, which translation of John 1:1,2 agrees with the context? John 1:18 says: "No one has ever seen God." Verse 14 clearly says that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us... we have beheld his glory."
Also, verses 1, 2 say that in the beginning he was "with God." Can one be with someone and at the same time be that person? At John 17:3, Jesus addresses the Father as "the only true God"; so, Jesus as "a god" merely reflects his Fathers divine qualities.