Originally posted by:crunkmoose

"I don't think we should force people to pay for something that not everyone is going to use."

.. you mean like we do with other services that are a benefit to our society as a whole... like police, fire departments, FEMA, infrastructure, etc????

Originally posted by:bitsOfury

Originally posted by:crunkmoose

"I don't think we should force people to pay for something that not everyone is going to use."

.. you mean like we do with other services that are a benefit to our society as a whole... like police, fire departments, FEMA, infrastructure, etc????

could you possibly come up with better examples? we ALL USE THE POLICE, FIRE, FEMA AND INFASTRUCTURE.

higher education is 100% choice.

Originally posted by:bitsOfury

moose, I still believe you're about 16 because of your logic sometimes. it all makes sense.

Originally posted by:lord sauron

mail service is free.

Originally posted by:JGalt

Two main reasons:
1: I think the public school system sucks. Why would we want to turn our higher ed. system into the same thing? The govt. has proven time and time again that they are extremely inefficient.


This is an idiotic idea.

Originally posted by: paradelights

moose, I still believe you're about 16 because of your logic sometimes. it all makes sense.

Originally posted by: adam.

Originally posted by: paradelights

moose, I still believe you're about 16 because of your logic sometimes. it all makes sense.

so says the person who doesn't seem to get the fact that increased rates of higher education are good for the national economy.

Originally posted by: kp for life

Originally posted by:YourLastSavior

Alright, that clears things up. Still I think if we're debating this issue without keeping our current social situation in mind than we're really just debating a pipe dream. I do believe it is the duty of a society to ensure the education of it's youth, but I'm discouraged more and more every time my paycheck gets smaller and then I hear the evening news tell me the education system is failing. I hear our classes are over-crowded and our teachers are poorly qualifed or underpaid or too restricted by regulations. That the schools themselves are understaffed and poorly equipped to teach hands-on. Society will never be convinced that it ought to pay for college tuition as well if the government cannot show it can succesfully maintain the lower education system successfully with all the money we give it. Those two aspects of education may not really have a lot to do with each other, but that doesn't matter, people won't make that distinction with their money, and they shouldn't be expected to.

I agree that it would be excellent for our country and it's economy and development if we could provide free tuition for college, but it's a tough sell considering what are money now is doing. Whether it's corruption, misplaced spending, or choked bureaucracy, the efficacy of our currently socialized aspects of education are not going to convince anyone to socialize more of it. As worthwhile as it may be it won't happen unless lower education gets a much-needed overhaul to restore people's confidence in the government ability to operate things successfully...

see, i actually think about it the other way around: why bother teaching kids that well in grade and high school, if you're going to leave them hanging when it comes to finishing their education by going to college? it's almost cruel and unusual punishment to make them so fully aware of what they can never have, when they might be happier as fully ignorant drones working at the chicken factory.

and as far as socialized tuition for college being a pipe dream, it only is so if we refuse to consider it at all. it is not a new idea, and in a capitalist mindframe it can be seen as one of the few sound investments available to us as a society.

the internet is a great example of how unrestricted access to information can change our culture. or to use a more concrete example, think of how much more ignorant we would be without public libraries, and if the only books we could buy were those sold in supermarkets and chain stores.

education is not that different. if, as a society we encouraged learning instead of creating barriers to it, there would be sweeping changes for the better in every other aspect of our lives.
if you can even imagine a situation where everyone could study to the fullest extent of their abilities and interest, you may be able to see what i'm getting at.
and don't worry about the best schools getting overcrowded; the hardest schools would still be the hardest schools [although they might get a lot harder] and that's a good thing. rich kids would no longer get to go to schools like yale after a summer of fucking and sucking trim on south beach or the south of france, just because their daddies went there or dropped an assload of cash on the place. they'd have to actually be able to do the work, and deserve it.

instead, what we do now is make the acquisition of higher learning and expertise prohibitively expensive - the end result of which policy is an institutionalized classism and a nation of gilded amatuers. a civilization which rewards class over merit will always be mediocre and will have to maintain its primacy in the world with force rather than prowess